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Post by turbodood on Dec 9, 2006 17:23:49 GMT -5
The EDWOW DVD they mass marketed cost $13 --- that had productions costs and crap, thats fine.
Actually the fact that the most recent may show costs $18 by itself is the biggest problem.
The packaging with the case and printed label (if they bothered on these particular discs) is more expensive to do than the disc itself --- they are just duplicating DVD-Rs, which cost basically nothing. --- that is whay I don't think something like that is unreasonable.
For that matter the $10ish price for the normal dvds isn't that bad either --- its just I wanted to see what the new DWOW is all about, and well with this threat of the store closing, was gonna get all 3 of them --- then I saw the total cost, $40, and thats just too much for me.
Highspots.com has the first one from february, which I can get even if they do no longer have their own DVD store, at any time.
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Post by turbodood on Dec 9, 2006 17:25:40 GMT -5
One other thing --- the .99 VODs that are on sale, actually is a good deal even by my standards. However I've never really had an itch to get anything other than the Ho vs. Ho VODs when those were first put up, so I tell ya what, how bout some suggestions for VODs? Which ones are good .. post suggestions.
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Post by shootinu on Dec 10, 2006 10:44:10 GMT -5
The EDWOW DVD they mass marketed cost $13 --- that had productions costs and crap, thats fine. Actually the fact that the most recent may show costs $18 by itself is the biggest problem. The packaging with the case and printed label (if they bothered on these particular discs) is more expensive to do than the disc itself --- they are just duplicating DVD-Rs, which cost basically nothing. --- that is whay I don't think something like that is unreasonable. For that matter the $10ish price for the normal dvds isn't that bad either --- its just I wanted to see what the new DWOW is all about, and well with this threat of the store closing, was gonna get all 3 of them --- then I saw the total cost, $40, and thats just too much for me. Highspots.com has the first one from february, which I can get even if they do no longer have their own DVD store, at any time. Turbo you make no sense at all with your rationalizations. You complain about the price and talk about the cost of manufacturing. You make it seem like that all DWOW has to pay for in manufacturing of the products. What about the marketing, the day to day operations, staffing, promotion, oh and get this the live event (and this could include some or all of the following the building, insurance, the doctor, and talent). DWOW is a business whether we would all want to believe that or not. You have to look beyond what it actually cost per dvd $1 for blank dvd, .25 for dvd printing on label, $1 for color insert, .25 for wrapping, etc. Just because the show took place a year, two or five ago, DWOW still could be recouping the cost of doing those shows originally and here’s a rare concept saying they did make their money back, they could actually MAKE money from the sales forever on their shows (ah there’s the theory it’s a business). Where does it say that a company would just have to give things away once they broke even? A matter of fact what about all the big movies and movie studios, it’s the same deal on a larger scale! At your rate of thinking DWOW will be dead and buried by the end of the year. Thank gawd everyone does not think like you. I know I don’t, having run my own business for some time now I do understand what goes into running one. The VOD deals are awesome right now. I suggest you buy whatever VOD looks interesting to you, as there are pictures, and a write up for each VOD. At .99 cents or even a $1.99 for most of them now, you really can’t go wrong. I think one of the best thing about ¾ of the VODS I’ve purchased is that most of them run at least 15 to 20 minutes, which by download VOD standards for wrestling footage is great as the other companies like Ringdivas, Wrestleclick and Highspots edit the matches heavily and you end up with 5-8 minutes (ok sometimes 10 minutes), but the others average a $9.95 price tag. So at the prices above you could get 5 matches for $10 –average of 100 minutes (that’s an hour and forty minutes) of action, compared to others of 1 match for say 10 minutes for $9.95. That’s not a bad deal at all in my books! In fact, that is just down right incredible! For the record all of the .99 cent VODS look like oil matches, that were edited and that may be why they are .99 cents. But even at this rate those clips were entertaining and I’m glad I bought them.
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Post by turbodood on Dec 10, 2006 19:49:00 GMT -5
Part of the reason I asked about which VODs to get is because a lot of the ones I looked at were under 5 minutes. In fact most of them. I guess you're right that the $2 ones are whats longer, but if thats the case thats a new switch because it seemed like they were all priced the same before, I dunno.
Anyway you make a valid point about the expenses of running a company, but here's how I see it. Most wrestling companies that I've ever talked to anyone involved in them tell me they plan to cover the operating costs of an event, from the gate alone. Anything else they make, even the concessions and merchandise is profit. Everything else you mentioned like staffing and whatnot (and this has even been talked about on some of the old ECW DVDs), is for the most part indeed covered by merchandise and DVD sales. Now, that is probably why DWOW practically went out of business 4 2 years once already --- they were recouping costs from before on DVD sales and stuf like that.
I re-affirm my statement that the only thing the dwowvod.com going out of business means it he distribution deal on the VOD content is probably running out. --- they probably didn't make enough to justify doing it again. The only thing I can say about that is, I can understand divx at DVD quality as a choice --- but it probably didn't help the bandwidth bill.
So in closing what I'm saying is -- you're right. But like I said before --- there is so much content out there now for free (and I'm not even talking about illegal stuff) -- I mean hell its pretty easy to fill up an entire day watching TV and listening to podcasts, I don't even have time to play video games anymore. To pay for video content I really have to bloody want it a lot, and know I want to make time for it.
Heres the thing -- right now it is costing them money to distribute the video, which is why they have to charge for it.
With this new free content revolution I'm talking about, I simply think a company like DWOW has to be more live event focused in order to survive.
I mean think about this, if they took every single one of those VOD clips and put them on youtube, it would cost them nothing -- and it would certainly generate interest in live events.
And heck after a live event, put some crappy version of it on youtube, then sell a higher quality version on DVD, or perhaps even get into the PPV realm this way.
I suppose the point is there needs to be enough interest in the company, that the ticket prices at the events can be high enough to in themselves support the company.
Mayhbe this is just incoherant rambling that is totally pointles, I dont have an economics degree, maybe this isn't even possible --- I simple feel that is the way things are moving.
That and the fact that the NWWL could very well crush the entire womens wrestling world, because they have credible names and top quality trainers --- whos gonna watched clothed women wrestle if they have a choice.
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Post by shootinu on Dec 11, 2006 7:56:02 GMT -5
Anyway you make a valid point about the expenses of running a company, but here's how I see it. Most wrestling companies that I've ever talked to anyone involved in them tell me they plan to cover the operating costs of an event, from the gate alone. Anything else they make, even the concessions and merchandise is profit. Everything else you mentioned like staffing and whatnot (and this has even been talked about on some of the old ECW DVDs), is for the most part indeed covered by merchandise and DVD sales. Now, that is probably why DWOW practically went out of business 4 2 years once already --- they were recouping costs from before on DVD sales and stuf like that. I re-affirm my statement that the only thing the dwowvod.com going out of business means it he distribution deal on the VOD content is probably running out. --- they probably didn't make enough to justify doing it again. The only thing I can say about that is, I can understand divx at DVD quality as a choice --- but it probably didn't help the bandwidth bill. So in closing what I'm saying is -- you're right. But like I said before --- there is so much content out there now for free (and I'm not even talking about illegal stuff) -- I mean hell its pretty easy to fill up an entire day watching TV and listening to podcasts, I don't even have time to play video games anymore. To pay for video content I really have to bloody want it a lot, and know I want to make time for it. Heres the thing -- right now it is costing them money to distribute the video, which is why they have to charge for it. With this new free content revolution I'm talking about, I simply think a company like DWOW has to be more live event focused in order to survive. I mean think about this, if they took every single one of those VOD clips and put them on youtube, it would cost them nothing -- and it would certainly generate interest in live events. And heck after a live event, put some crappy version of it on youtube, then sell a higher quality version on DVD, or perhaps even get into the PPV realm this way. I suppose the point is there needs to be enough interest in the company, that the ticket prices at the events can be high enough to in themselves support the company. Mayhbe this is just incoherant rambling that is totally pointles, I dont have an economics degree, maybe this isn't even possible --- I simple feel that is the way things are moving. That and the fact that the NWWL could very well crush the entire womens wrestling world, because they have credible names and top quality trainers --- whos gonna watched clothed women wrestle if they have a choice. First, recouping or making a profit, the point is moot. DWOW is allowed to make as much money as they want off their video catalog and in no way have to offer it for free as you suggest. With all these hosting companies out there I'm sure they can find something pretty cheap for space and bandwidth. There's sop much competition in that market. Free content revolution? Where do you come up with this stuff? 10 second clips, 1 minute clips and even some longer available on google, itunes and youtube don't make a free content revolution. Am I the only one to think that just because you have a video camera and you shoot footage, doesn't mean your material is good or interesting. Here all these people are cloggin up the internet for the free content "of crap" revolution! Maybe it's free because no one would pay for it! On the NWWL rant about how they would crush all women's promotion because their naked. Live events? I don't think so. So your whole theory of live events over vod or dvd sales goes right out the window. Plus is NWWL giving full matches available for free?
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Post by turbodood on Dec 11, 2006 12:28:34 GMT -5
Free content revolution was basically referencing podcasts I guess.
I bought EDWOW and a ticket to a show, as far as I'm concerned thats enough to support the company, I dunno why I'm defending myself.
As for NWWL not having any live events, well its hard to say. Since they are going to be on spike and presumably can't wrestle naked on TV even after midnight, presumably they will save that for PPV --- so they may.
Anyway though I do like live events, the lack of them is sort of the issue here anyway. If I could go to one on a monthy basis there would be no arguement on how many VODs I should buy.
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Post by shootinu on Dec 11, 2006 12:48:55 GMT -5
Free content revolution was basically referencing podcasts I guess. I bought EDWOW and a ticket to a show, as far as I'm concerned thats enough to support the company, I dunno why I'm defending myself. As for NWWL not having any live events, well its hard to say. Since they are going to be on spike and presumably can't wrestle naked on TV even after midnight, presumably they will save that for PPV --- so they may. Anyway though I do like live events, the lack of them is sort of the issue here anyway. If I could go to one on a monthy basis there would be no arguement on how many VODs I should buy. First Turbo, I'm discussing your points with you. Please don't take it as an attack and if I came off that way I apologize now. I am very passionate about things I like and support and DWOW happens to be one of and I know I'm in a minority. I actually like and was amused by the free content revolution to say. I'm glad you bought a ticket and the dvd and I'm sure DWOW is too. I heard a rumor a long time ago about NWWL on Spike, but the logistics don't seem to match up. I don't understand how they would do it. I've also just did some searches on it and am not finding anything on it. Do you have more information or a reliable source?
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Post by turbodood on Dec 11, 2006 13:17:28 GMT -5
www.womenswrestlingxposed.com/category/nwwl/ This news site says they will be debuting on spike in february --- I don't know how reliable it is. I can certainly understand you supporting DWOW, whether you get that impression or not, I'd like to do the same, clearly we just have different views about how.
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Post by ManagerOfChampions on Dec 13, 2006 13:29:14 GMT -5
The actual link to the article is here, and the NWWL deal is mentioned in the last paragraph. As for how reliable it is, the NWWL workers have been told by management that they will be on SpikeTV in February. So, unless management is lying to the workers...it's gonna happen. I support DWOW, always have and always will. I think some people expect too much though...and that includes the higher ups in the company. DWOW is an indy fed, plain and simple. They don't have a million dollar budget, they don't have a professional production company behind them, and for the most part, they don't have the resources to produce WWE quality DVDs. I'm not trying to offend anyone with that, it's just a fact. I work for an indy right now, and I've watched as the promoter has literally sank thousands of dollars just into production equipment. He's got some of the best cameras, lighting, sound, and burning equipment that the general public can buy...and he still can't touch the quality of WWE. And again, I'm not saying this to put anyone down. I'm just saying that if you enjoy watching DWOW matches, cut them some slack. It's not easy, and it sure as hell isn't cheap, to put out an amazing quality DVD. But the real question is...because it still hasn't been "officially" stated...what's going out of business? Is it just DWOW VoD...or is it DWOW as a whole?
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Post by turbodood on Dec 14, 2006 1:31:53 GMT -5
The latest e-mail ad seems to have confirmed the situation a little. They are going to reach their bandwidth limit. It is also implying they are not going to re-stock the DVDs.
I can only suggest this --- we don't need snazzy cases and printed covers and what not, simple, cheap DVD-Rs would do fine --- so there is basically no limit to how many of these you can duplicate and sell for virtually nothing. --- hopefully the company is not going under and they will just defer the DVD distrubution back to highspots like they did before. This may mean less selection and higher prices, though.
As for the NWWL, I'm certainly interested to see what they do. They are also supposed to air the PPV thats been sitting in the can for at least 6 months in february as well, so I think this will debut at the beginning of the month, and the tv show at the end. As for what the tv show will entail, well I cans see two approaches. One they wrestle clothed on TV and naked only in the PPVs, or they pixellate the tv show and try to sell it on-line or something. It will certainly be interesting to see what happens.
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Post by ManagerOfChampions on Dec 14, 2006 10:57:51 GMT -5
I can only suggest this --- we don't need snazzy cases and printed covers and what not, simple, cheap DVD-Rs would do fine --- so there is basically no limit to how many of these you can duplicate and sell for virtually nothing. --- hopefully the company is not going under and they will just defer the DVD distrubution back to highspots like they did before. This may mean less selection and higher prices, though. Actually, going back to Highspots wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I've worked with them in the past, and they have a few different options when it came to distributing, including one option where the federation sends them the footage and they make the DVDs. Yes, it cuts into the bottom line a little, but it also ups the production value greatly. Also, and I think this does get a little pricey, but you can hire them to actually come out and shoot the footage. That ups the overall production tremendously. As for the NWWL, I'm certainly interested to see what they do. They are also supposed to air the PPV thats been sitting in the can for at least 6 months in february as well, so I think this will debut at the beginning of the month, and the tv show at the end. As for what the tv show will entail, well I cans see two approaches. One they wrestle clothed on TV and naked only in the PPVs, or they pixellate the tv show and try to sell it on-line or something. It will certainly be interesting to see what happens. Yeah, I think you are pretty much correct on the release dates. I'll give you an educated guess on the content. I'm not exactly sure how many PPVs they have to release, but you're pretty sure to see a shift in what kind of action they contain from the first to the last. I know that they hired some real ladies wrestlers, April Hunter most notably, so I think there is going to be a shift from the nudity to more actual wrestling as it progresses. The Spike show, from what I can tell, is going to be clothed...although not overly clothed. lol. From some of the preview pics I've seen, some of the girls are pretty well "exposed", but no so much so that they can't be on cable TV. I, for one, hope that everything works out for everyone. There is room in this industry for more than one quality women's wrestling fed. In fact, it would be better for everyone...fans, workers, feds....if there was at least two quality feds. Competition makes things interesting...makes both feds have to up the ante and work for their viewership. Just look at the Monday Night Wars...some of us hated it when it was going on...but looking back, it truly was an interesting and exciting era of wrestling.
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Post by lillouie on Dec 14, 2006 19:19:09 GMT -5
WOW, there's a lot going on here! So, I'll jump in and add my 2 cent's worth. Re: The distribution issues. I'm guessing that DWOW's deal with Big Vision Entertainment has something to do with it. Big Vision is a large outfit with a large distribution network. i.e. Best Buy for example. These guys are BIG! I could easily see them wanting exclusive distribution rights on the DWOW library which will make the DWOW DVD's available in stores all over the country. The only question is, will they accept/distribute all of the footage or shy away from much of it due to the low production values? I would assume that BV would want the DVD's to look more "Professional" than in the past seeing as they are putting their name behind it. That's not to say it couldn't be done by adding a good looking "Intro" on each DVD with the announcer introducing the show and explaining that it was shot a number of years ago. That may be enough for them to "Explain" the poor lighting etc. Managerofchampions, "I work for an indy right now, and I've watched as the promoter has literally sank thousands of dollars just into production equipment. He's got some of the best cameras, lighting, sound, and burning equipment that the general public can buy...and he still can't touch the quality of WWE." This is an area I have a bit of knowledge of as I've worked in the video industry for 33 years (Yeah, I'm OLD ) Sinking "Thousands" of dollars into lighting, cameras sound etc. is actually nothing. No offense but, let's take the old ECW crew (Charlie, Ron and Lee) who have shot the WEW PPV's, XPW, MLW, the Hardcore Homecoming DVD's and, I think, the February DWOW show for example. The LENS on their cameras alone cost $12,000. The camera back about $3,000 and the camera itself $6,000 - $8,000. One of their cameras alone probably costs more than all the equipment either Highspot's, RF Video or Smart Mark owns. No offense to any of them as I've seen their work and, for the most part, it's very good. However, if you're looking for a "Quality" look, it's all in the lens. In addition, you can have the best equipment available but EDITING is key. Nope, not just the editing software, but the EDITOR. The creative person putting the show together. If you look at the overall "LOOK" of what the old ECW Crew shot vs. any tape by Highspots, RF or Smart Mark you'll see what I mean. So, Managerofchampions, you might want to tell your promoter that he really needs to be sure he has a capable, experienced editor putting his show together. That will make a world of difference. Also, to have as much light as possible over the ring. That will increase the overall "Look" of his shows based on what I'm guessing are the cameras he'll be using. This is not a criticism, just a suggestion. Louie
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lizsavage
Junior Member
Staff
Photo by Robert Payes
Posts: 61
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Post by lizsavage on Dec 19, 2006 0:59:27 GMT -5
I think everyone should take up the chance to get the VOD's now cheap as hell! Its definatly worth it! Hey you guys can see my hardcore fight (my first ever, and missy's first ever) for one $2! Hoe the hell you beat that I dont know, and its 13 minutes long! I have yet to see it... but a local sports show that was there played it on thier TV show, and they got more feedback on that match and show than ANY show they ever did regarding wrestling! dwowvod.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=72&osCsid=b9fb0d62c2f182e6db48da22f9e134bbYou know you want it!
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Post by ManagerOfChampions on Dec 20, 2006 10:52:50 GMT -5
So, Managerofchampions, you might want to tell your promoter that he really needs to be sure he has a capable, experienced editor putting his show together. That will make a world of difference. Also, to have as much light as possible over the ring. That will increase the overall "Look" of his shows based on what I'm guessing are the cameras he'll be using. This is not a criticism, just a suggestion. That's not really a problem. His day job is at the CW Network. He knows a little bit about editing. lol
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Post by lillouie on Dec 20, 2006 18:11:19 GMT -5
Manager, Then you're in good hands especially if he works in the production end.
I wish you luck with it and let us all know how it works out.
Louie
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